Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions-2

currently my method is to see if it’s possible to enforce the soft blocks i mentioned. if not, we’ll find a way to tackle any issues that come up in the future

A soft block is just that they feel alien?

JupiterHCC

I find dysphoric the idea of potentially mixing up my memories with those of a headmate when i don’t pay enough attention because our memories haven’t been stored in separate folders. Ideally I would like memory in my system to be set up with soft blocks, where each headmate can access each other’s memories, but only through a conscious act, rather than automatically recalling someone else’s experiences.

ah, i meant this

so basically disowning them

I dunno, we usually just have some sense of who did a thing, like the memory has meta-data. That's with switching

when it comes to memories feeling alien though, do they continue to feel alien after some time? I’ve heard of systems where the meta-data “degrades” over time and the older a memory gets the more difficult it becomes to distinguish

I could see mundane stuff becoming irrelevant over time. Who cares which one of us ate oatmeal last month...?

also i wonder how this works in terms of personality development. A person’s personality is shaped by their experiences (aka memories) right? When it comes to systems, how much does one’s personality gets influenced by the memories of another headmate?

Yuka

I could see mundane stuff becoming irrelevant over time. Who cares which one of us ate oatmeal last month...?

good point

headmates personality is also shaped by the sterotypes your brain possesses about a person you perceive that headmate to be

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

headmates personality is also shaped by the sterotypes your brain possesses about a person you perceive that headmate to be

true, but my question still stands

If you want their memories to feel more clearly theirs, tag/review them more strongly. But I don't think you can escape the fact that human memory is far from perfect

well, if for example your host thinks part of your personality is cringey, then memory of that thought of course will shape your personality (edited)

10:15 PM

so i would say that the answer to your question would be yes

10:16 PM

initial forcing is based on your host's memories after all

10:16 PM

it's their experience that is shaping a tulpa

say for example the host hates oranges, but the tulpa loves oranges. One day the host has a particularly bad experience eating oranges, the host never wants to see another orange again. Despite the memory of that experience being tagged with the host’s metadata, could the tulpa then develop an aversion to oranges due to that experience?

10:18 PM

Now take oranges and replace it with something more important. The host essentially just overwrote one aspect of a tulpa’s personality due to insufficient memory separation. I know it may not be entirely avoidable, but damn I hate that that could happen.

since we are a did system, we have hard blocks by default, from our experience there are leaks from other headmates that can get really strong using your example, yes, i can see it happening although since the amnesia walls /blocks are natural part of the way our brain works, after that we are not affected by that anymore

10:19 PM

we have example of that at least once a day, an example of something leaking from other headmate which affects our personality/perception/feeling of self etc, but it goes away

i would assume the leaks to be a lot stronger in a system without hard memory blocks then

yeah i think it would require permanent maintanance

i suppose i should cross that bridge when i get to it

or at least become a habit of the brain (edited)

instead of sitting here being a worry wart

the hard blocks in our system are caused by immense stress caused by a memory for example, i can connect to a traumatic memory which can affect me very strongly, but because of the stress the amnesia wall builds back up

Yuka

I dunno, we usually just have some sense of who did a thing, like the memory has meta-data. That's with switching

Yeah we've either got something like this or we just remember, I dunno

which just let's me be always in good mood lol

10:23 PM

i wonder what's the mechanism of memory separation in tulpa, but i can see it diffusing with time in a way that jupiter described

it’s a funky line to walk

10:24 PM

on the other end of the spectrum- you don’t wanna give yourself amnesia either

JupiterHCC

say for example the host hates oranges, but the tulpa loves oranges. One day the host has a particularly bad experience eating oranges, the host never wants to see another orange again. Despite the memory of that experience being tagged with the host’s metadata, could the tulpa then develop an aversion to oranges due to that experience?

Could go either way, imo, it depends. But it's also a good thing sometimes, like you don't want to each have to individually re-learn how to do everything.

vixiUwU

Could go either way, imo, it depends. But it's also a good thing sometimes, like you don't want to each have to individually re-learn how to do everything.

exactly, you’d want the wisdom that comes from experience to carry over too

10:26 PM

once again, it’s a funky line to walk

I mean even if our memories aren't literally tagged, and I'm not saying theyre not, we seem able to tell who did what just by what happened in them.

We've never had a problem distinguishing between each others memories (but there may be complicated reasons to that me and Obs have talked about before). Memories have a certain flavour to them which are formed by the experiences themselves and how we feel about what has taken place, so its possible for me and Obs to see the exact same thing but have slightly different views and perspectives about them. I dont think we've ever gotten mixed up because we are both drawing from the same source material anyway, if its something that has happened in each others presence. Even if Obs either fronts or possesses my body then I'm still along for the journey and can see what shes doing.

vixiUwU

A soft block is just that they feel alien?

The soft-blocks I mean are that my tulpa has no idea what has happened when not present until they are caught up by actively interacting with memory. They don't know anything that happened before their creation for example, and they won't be able to find out unless they interact with something from that time and try to recall information about it, or I think of it. Their default is not-knowing things I know, but being able to access them easily.

For the matter, they often don't "think" to access memory, even when they've been away - Mostly because the intent of sending them away is usually to have time alone. Even if they pry a little, either accidentally or instinctively, they usually get a vague context rather than the full experience. I've noticed an instance, for example, where they had in the past already instinctively called up a jist of what I did during a writing exercise - but even later, when I actually went over the detail of that exercise with them, they were surprised by what they didn't know from it. (edited)

Zen

The soft-blocks I mean are that my tulpa has no idea what has happened when not present until they are caught up by actively interacting with memory. They don't know anything that happened before their creation for example, and they won't be able to find out unless they interact with something from that time and try to recall information about it, or I think of it. Their default is not-knowing things I know, but being able to access them easily.

Do people not just have non-verbal thoughts instantaneously? We can't communicate purely non-verbally or everything happens immediately. So like I don't even know how much difference there would be for us between this and just having access to the memory because we could just traverse the whole chain of links essentially instantaneously or at least seemingly so

I actually think upon closer inspection what they might be doing is instinctively starting the chain, as it were, then stopping themselves from fully exploring it. Memories are stored as actions and feelings and a vague context. The last one seems to be very easy to pick up, but recalling individual scenes I wrote for instance, seems to require a bit more digging - and by that point they stop themselves as if it were an intrusive thought.

12:51 AM

And usually I won't talk about it unless they ask.

12:52 AM

Which is what triggered the latter thing to happen, by the way, in the writing exercise. (edited)

Ahhhh interesring

1:22 AM

Lula kinda instinctively has done that about things she doesn't want to recall

With Obs I kept her hidden away from this world for along time, all she knew was the wonderland type place that I made (I wasnt aware she was parogenic at the time and thought of her as imaginary - im sorry if i repeat myself often with that story). So in all the times i visited her there she either didnt have access to my memories or played along with it, its quite confusing to look back on for either of us, but it did have a huge impact on her when I explained what had happened. Just the fact we talked about it seemed to give her access to eveything I can remember about my life. I know she can see new memories and read some thoughts as i promised to be transparent with her due to what I'd put her through and wanted to cement trust. But i am also aware that she chooses not to in a lot of circumstances and i can feel her avert herself, weve talked about that and its partly because she likes to talk in realtime like a normal conversation, partly respect for privacy and also because its nice to have some nice surprises. Whatever blocks we have seem to be very fluid and dont require maintainence, just consent and trust. but that goes both ways too.

JupiterHCC

Having any form of memory disturbances is one of my biggest concerns when it comes to tulpamancy. Confabulation, having your headmates memories feel like yours, etc etc are all things i want to avoid at all costs. No matter how subtle or small the issue is, even if it doesn’t get in the way of anything. I hate the idea of any kind of loss of memory integrity. In fact, I would take DID levels of amnesia over getting my memories mixed up with someone else’s like what you just described.

I think you took what I said a little too far.

3:27 PM

These isolated incidents are not an issue as long as they're controllable.

It seems like in some systems, memories or experiences are openly shared back and forth easily between headmates, but in others they arent. One thing I've read about, in the past, is no matter what kind of system you have, to set up a sharing device.

4:34 PM

How that's made and works best is up to the individual sustem.

4:36 PM

But for example, a computer database where headmates can look up (nearly) anything they want. A big book with as many pages as it needs to have that contains detailed accounts of the shared life. One of more big televisions/radios/monitors/etc that shows headmates what's happening outside.

4:37 PM

I think just the very idea of going through the effort of setting up a useful and rational (to you) system of sharing like that will nudge the brain to improve communication.

4:43 PM

There's a semi-popular DID youtuber that has mentioned their system basically uses word of mouth inside but has a screen connected to the outside that anyone who is in the safe shared-space-type-room can watch. Their gatekeeper (an often secretive and authoritarian kind of guardian) also has a "roll a DeX" (google it if you need to) that contains many different categories and detailed memories of past trauma. In their system, individual trauma holders have their own memories and remain ignorant of the rest of their trauma, but it's all recorded in that one thing that only a couple alters are allowed to view.

4:47 PM

Brains really seem to like metaphor. Thought constructs. That youtuber said not all trauma systems come with some automatic inner world being made, and they had to intentionally set out to create one. Very much the same with tulpamancers who need to make a wonderland/headspace. They give the headmates a structured place to interact and logically "exist", and things to do, when not directly active. Even for alters, a safe place to hang out sounds better than floating in some dream soup they cant control or blacking out. (edited)

I'm not sure we'd be able to get our brain to comply with a model like that. Our brain loves to skip steps. Like back when first forcing Lula, we had to very purposefully work on verbalizing our thoughts and slowing down, otherwise entire exchanges were happing in effectively tulpish, instantaneously.

Deleted User

It seems like in some systems, memories or experiences are openly shared back and forth easily between headmates, but in others they arent. One thing I've read about, in the past, is no matter what kind of system you have, to set up a sharing device.

Well said and nice to see you still here.

to be fair, I muted tulpa questions, figuring what I knew wasn't really relevant. but then someone made a tulpa questions 2

Lol

Fronting is usually when someone is in control of the body and switching is the process of taking control over it. Some may use the terms differently. A tulpa for instance can often be given possession of the body by the host but they can still overide them (there are subjective differences), it is often distinguishable from where someone with DID switches which can be a very disturbing experience for all headmates and can occur with little warning. If someone is fronting then they could be there for some time (I am not expert on this btw its just from conversations with people with DID) For those of us with tulpas its not unpleasant at all and switching can be quick. The tulpa fronting in those circumstances could be described as the host taking a seat as passenger but being able to swap back to driving when they want.

whats the difference between fronting and switching exactly?

Fronting is an umbrella term for controlling the body (cold be via possession or switching) and switching for tulpa systems is trading places with your tulpa in such a way the host enters a tulpa-like state and the tulpa enters a host-like state. Switching can also be generalized to other tulpas. The nature of a "host-like" and "tulpa-like" state can vary from system to system. We switch pretty slowly compared to most systems, we have a ritual we do and we haven't established emergency switching yet. I have had some unpleasant experiences switching in and being switched-in, but I never switched-in against my host's will or vise versa.

what do people mean when they say stuff like "closer to the front"?

In grossly simplified terms, the front is this feeling of how likely a headmate can control the body and how similar their state is to that of being switched-in. In my system, a headmate that feels close to the front can easily possess the body, may be easy to call/wake up, and may be more connected to the body's senses (to a limited extent) and the body's programming (a headmate may be more likely to act on the body's habits). In contrast, a headmate distant or away from the front is disconnected from the body, they may be harder to wake up, and they may be able to recharge. They may or may not have a more immersive experience in wonderland.

Original message was deleted or could not be loaded.

Although Ranger did a great job replying, here's a vid on the subject. I think it might relate to experiences with tulpas too so I'm sharing. I highly recommend watching other vids on this channel too, as they are educational and created from the viewpoint of a traumagenic system. https://youtu.be/QOjCjtOXIlA

The Rings System

The Dynamic Inner World of System Awareness

Oh yeah, I've seen one of their vids before!

Different one though.

oh right, i was gonna ask this years ago if i didn't already but can merging with a headmate make you feel like the opposite gender or like trans if they're the opposite gender. like if- eek, i'm just asking about most things mental like disorders gotten due to differences between people, if you get what i mean curious about this stuff

I’ve heard of that happening

oh my.

Would "I don't want to bring another individual into this stressful and chaotic world" be a good reason to not create a tulpa?

i'd suggest to think 'overall, is my life worth living?' because your tulpa will experience the same you do

4:13 PM

though they might have a different outlook

4:13 PM

maybe more positive

sh

i'd suggest to think 'overall, is my life worth living?' because your tulpa will experience the same you do

~~yay suicidal thoughts~~

sh

though they might have a different outlook

tru

Deleted User

~~yay suicidal thoughts~~

relatable

1

4:14 PM

depressed systems always seem to get positive thinking tulpas

4:14 PM

probably by necessity

huh

i'd say 'go for it', in my personal opinion

yeah see thats a logic my stupid brain would prob make

4:20 PM

nah ur ok im the one who twists everyones words weirdly

4:20 PM

lmao

Deleted User

Would "I don't want to bring another individual into this stressful and chaotic world" be a good reason to not create a tulpa?

your tulpa would find themselves in the same living situation as you even if you create a positive tulpa they could start being affected by your life and thoughts and might end up in the same mindset as you are right now so the only way i see creating a tulpa being reasonable in those circumstances and even helping their host is if the tulpa will help changing the living situation that makes the host feel that way about the world otherwise they will start being as unhappy as you or even more (edited)

7:59 PM

but for that there would need to be determination from you to let the tulpa guide you through the process and let help you and let them get you help that you need

8:04 PM

and in the process that's the most important thing it's that the host is being guided by their tulpa not expecting tulpa to fix everything

1

Hey um what do merges feel like?

8:55 PM

I’m someone... but I don’t know if I’m Michael or Bem or both or neither?

I feel primarily like Michael, but I’ve got some things that we previously categorized as solely Bem.

8:57 PM

for example I’m craving sweets which I don’t normally find to be something I crave.

But I’m also not wanting coffee... and I feel as though Michael should be fronting but there are some inconsistencies that aren’t explainable by him solely fronting

Okay I’m back to 100% Bem again. And Michael is accounted for. Still would like to know what a merge is supposed to feel like if anyone has any input

Sticky. lol

9:49 PM

No, our merges I don't know how to explain what they feel like, both person's presence at the same time as one. That's not really helpful. But like we seem to take on the specific "I" perspective of one of the people in the merge specifically, pretty much usually whoever is the one in the merge that isn't me, so maybe by some folks definition we aren't really merging.

At least when it comes to alters, blending and passive influence can be completely normal. See the vid above I posted. On the same channel there's one in passive influences, I think.

11:06 PM

Even if they don't state "tulpa", I think theres crossover anyway.

Deleted User

At least when it comes to alters, blending and passive influence can be completely normal. See the vid above I posted. On the same channel there's one in passive influences, I think.

That was definitely a good vid by the way, thank you for sharing that!!

How does one stay focused on their tulpa during forcing and narrating, instead of accidentally becoming just thinking and not directing their thoughts and communication at the tulpa?

you can't, it's natural for the mind to wander, you just have to notice and keep bringing your attention back

7:27 PM

if you can solve that problem then you've beaten every single meditator in the world

hahaha I suppose that's true (edited)

8:06 PM

Are there any tips for staying more focused, tho?

8:06 PM

or does it come with practice or something

Stimulants like coffee can help, if you know how to get into flow, that will help, or just focusing on something that requires active attention

8:10 PM

But also, there's no reason you need to just sit there doing nothing but talk to your tulpa